What to Look For if You're Looking For a Church Staff Position

I was on staff as an associate pastor (for children and families) at more than 5 churches over a 17-year period. It was really 6 churches but since that experience was so short and toxic, it doesn't merit a blink on my resume. In-between the actual positions, I was interviewed by even more churches before making a decision to join a team. Even though I no longer work in that venue, I think some of my before-hire, before-you-decide observations can be really helpful for others in this venue especially because they are things I've mulled over, learned from and sometimes missed.

If you are in the exciting mode of looking for a church staff position, here are few things I would tell myself (and now you) to consider:

Remember to ask, listen hard and observe carefully. You are interviewing them, too and this isn't like any other job - it will involve your entire family even if you are the only one being paid.

1. Remove the stars from your eyes about "doing the Lord's work". Yes, you absolutely are doing His work. However, you are in a business enterprise run by people. They will behave just like people. The only different is that we North Americans somehow expect more from those who work at church. Give them a break. And rely on the Lord more than ever.

2. Find out what the church environment is really like. The brochure and the one-minute elevator speeches are great. But is it real? One church told me how much they love, love, loved their town. They had tote bags printed up. They had signs. They said it from the pulpit. Only problem, they didn't really love the staff. Staff is excluded?

3. What about the church culture? If they are looking at you to spearhead change, what is the pulse of the volunteer base? Are they even there? And will they accept someone "new"? Or, do they want to do things the dreaded "way we always have??" One church hired me to implement huge change and I had the backing of senior leadership who stood with me when the sourpusses spoke up. Another church hired me because they had never had a children's pastor but their volunteers were so wound up doing things the same way as their mother church,  I was constantly thwarted. And that pastor wanted to keep his people happy first.

4. How does this church view your position? They had better respect it to the moon and back and value your role. The healthy churches where I was privileged to be on staff literally welcomed me with parties and introductions from the stage. They also valued the position of children and family pastor and respected my ideas. There were a couple of churches in the mix who viewed children's ministry as babysitting (to my horror) and expected that the little woman who ran that area should sit on the floor in a cardigan sweater strumming her guitar singing "Jesus loves me" to the kids. If the church body (as taught by leadership) thinks so little of working with children, I wouldn't waste my time. Their low expectations and non-verbals will impede your energy and prohibit your success. And more importantly, your heart will break because the children deserve so much more. Jesus tells us so.

5. How will you be evaluated? What does success look like, anyway? One church had a guy with a business background who designed some numerical reporting form so complicated with rates and measures it was impossible to complete unless all you did was crunch numbers all day long. I failed to ask ahead of time because I had never been judged by categories and numbers before, and boy was I surprised to see what I had signed up for. They also had unachievable expectations. (Literally they had no committed volunteers for the school year set up except for the first Sunday, and expected me - without knowing anyone or even being introduced, much less welcomed - to fill all the slots within a week because they had heard I was a great recruiter. When I stated that recruiting is based on building relationships over time with support from senior leadership, they blew me off.) Another church relied on observations from people who were long-time friends with the pastor. He weighed their perspectives more heavily than mine.

6. What does your title really mean? One church wouldn't call me "pastor" because they said their culture would not accept that title for a woman. I would be called "director" instead, but given the same benefits and responsibilities as the men who had the title. That did not prove to be true.  When I asked about that, they reluctantly did a few things but for the most part did not follow through. The net result was that the position wasn't respected, and neither was I. Other times, I was indeed a pastor. But wasn't included in the male-dominated team-building activities.

7. Who really has the power in the church? This is the big one. You won't be told this essential piece of information and it is pretty hard to pick up during interviews. If you ask the church for references, perhaps they will speak? Most churches have a board that the senior pastor reports to. Some boards are silent, some want their names in the weekly bulletin. But behind the official names and titles - who is it that can influence the senior pastor?? At one church it was the secretary. She was a gossip and made errors in what you asked her to put in the bulletin and looked up innocently. At another church, it was a critical wife over-using her authority. She was constantly trolling, looking for ways things weren't being done according to her standards. She had a daily walking group of 5 other ladies (some staff and some pastor's wives) so things were stacked against the new girl with that established clique. In one church, they key donors dictated what the senior pastor did. He wanted to keep them happy and nervously worked to please them. When they left the church, he was lost.

8. Why are they looking to fill this position? And if they are looking out of state, why do they think it is necessary to fly you and yours across the country for further examination? I can't tell you how many times churches flew us in for a long weekend and ended up picking someone local. Sometimes the local person was far less qualified from what they stated they wanted during the interviews. A head hunter I met later told me this is a practice some churches use to "prove to their boards that they looked all over the country" when they had someone local in mind in the first place. They could say they had done their due diligence and get what they wanted.

9. How long has everyone else been in place? If it's less than a handful of years, find out why the turnover. If there are a number of positions newly replaced, find out what happened ASAP! What was the logic in replacing someone? Why do they say the others left? Ask them to give you the contact information of the people who have left. Be discerning here. Be wary if you learn that the position you are interviewing for has had a number of people in just a few years. Don't fall for the "they weren't the right fit" response. This is probably code for poor management. After all, how many people can all be a poor fit?

10. What are the time expectations? Do they say 40 hours a week, but really mean 60? Find out what a work-life balance looks like to them. Can you be home with the flu without feeling guilty? Can you eat dinner with your family without thinking there is a meeting you are "supposed" to attend? How the church structures their calendar says a lot about who they are. If they promote ministry time over their own families, what does that mean for yours? Is this what you want to expose your family to? I was blessed to be supported by each senior pastor when I said I wanted to weave my working hours around my family. I didn't want to be a family pastor at church with an empty family at home. I always got my work done and I never missed anything important with my family. Yes it was a crazy schedule and I had to be intentional about planning (and had huge support from my husband and kids), but I was able to work at what I loved and be invested in the family that I loved. If a church doesn't listen to your schedule needs, think hard. Your home life needs to be balanced first.

11. Finally, trust your gut. The few times I had a twinge, I didn't pay attention and I should have. Something just didn't seem right. And it wasn't. Pay attention to facial expressions and how the senior pastor does or doesn't participate during your interview process. That is a key to who they are. And who they will be. One guy sulked, slumped and looked distracted. Turns out, the only time he was attentive was during the sermon time in front of an audience. The rest of the time, he sat in his office with his lights off and walked around selectively acknowledging people. One pastor made each interview about himself. Apparently he was amazing. He had no interest in what I had to say unless it flattered him.

One pastor kept poking at me and misunderstood my comments. I chuckle now when I remember that interview! I said I wanted to go on to get "some letters after my name" (pursue further education) so that I would be credible. His reply? He wanted to discuss why I "thought so little of myself and had such a poor self image." Right now I am in the midst of getting a master's in marriage and family therapy so that I can be more qualified and credible in helping people.

Being bold enough to ask yourself some hard questions can help you define the right ministry experience for you and your family. Pay attention to the questions you ask that the church won't answer. Pay attention to the types of questions the church asks - that will clue you in to what they value. If they value something that is not even on your radar, don't take the job for the sake of being in ministry. One of my positions was just such a move. It did not strengthen my skills and was not worth the detour in my career except to show me that ministry is not ministry unless people become objective rather than remain entrenched in subjectivity.

Above all, remember first, foremost and always that you are working for God. Regardless of your experience in the business of church, your final answer is always to our heavenly father. Your success comes from him. Your support comes from him. He will help you navigate the people along the way.

P.S. I'd love to hear from you if you are searching for a ministry position - or have learned something along the way!